<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi,<br>
<br>
I believe it would be helpful to state more clearly in what way
any such data would be used, and for what purpose, and by what
kind of users. <br>
<br>
Knowing the true status of a package is a hard problem in general,
it is IMO not solvable by simply sticking a label to a package.
Any label is only as good and accountable as the governing
authority producing those labels, IMO. And deciding whether to
trust the guy having set the label can be just as hard.<br>
<br>
As a different example, knowing a project is a project of the
Apache Foundation tells you a lot because to become a project at
Apache, you need to go through an incubation phase, proving that
there is a maintainer, a community, and plentiful other of
metadata to indicate project health.<br>
<br>
Since we do not have that, checking the indicators of package
quality remains a lot of hard work. One needs to check the
documentation (complete, well-written, up-to-date), the project
history, the issue tracker state, the amount of regression tests,
which company is using a package, and maybe more.<br>
<br>
There cannot be a mere "status" label to replace all that activity
to figure out the status of a project, IMO.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Regarding <span style="mso-list:Ignore"><span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""></span></span>Code
quality/testing/metrics:<br>
Again it would be more useful if any person having a specific
interest in any such data would speak up for themselves. I believe
this kind of data can only ever be valuable for the active
maintainers/developers of a package. I cannot imagine any person
saying: "I was thinking about using package XYZ, but since I could
not see the number of compiler warnings/style warnings/complexity
measures in the wiki, i decided against investigating further".<br>
<br>
I can believe a person saying: "I'd love to introduce package XYZ
to my company, but I struggle with persuading my boss that the
quality of such an Open-Source package can be relied upon." But
then, simple code metrics would probably not help with that.<br>
<br>
Selling ROS (even for free) to a company is a marketing problem,
it is about maintaining a community, a pretty website and
advertising, finding reference customers speaking up for the
product, and so on.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Instead of imagining a future world with useful metrics, it might
help to point at real-world projects in the wild already using
metrics, and copy that for ROS if enough people prefer investing
time in that than in, say, ROS2.0. <br>
E.g. compare the list of projects and the stats they offer at <br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://freecode.com/">http://freecode.com/</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://pypi.python.org/pypi">https://pypi.python.org/pypi</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://analysis.apache.org/dashboard/index">https://analysis.apache.org/dashboard/index</a><br>
<br>
<br>
regards,<br>
Thibault<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 31.08.2013 04:39, Edwards, Shaun M. wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:A76DF136AB4A734197E3CC4987D065582B4F0539@mbx260-1.adm.swri.edu"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=ISO-8859-1">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 12 (filtered
medium)">
<style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
p.MsoListParagraph, li.MsoListParagraph, div.MsoListParagraph
{mso-style-priority:34;
margin-top:0in;
margin-right:0in;
margin-bottom:0in;
margin-left:.5in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";}
span.EmailStyle17
{mso-style-type:personal-compose;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:windowtext;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
/* List Definitions */
@list l0
{mso-list-id:1913850084;
mso-list-type:hybrid;
mso-list-template-ids:3567974 67698703 67698713 67698715 67698703 67698713 67698715 67698703 67698713 67698715;}
@list l0:level1
{mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
ol
{margin-bottom:0in;}
ul
{margin-bottom:0in;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal">All,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">We have received feedback from the users of
ROS-Industrial on two issues that I think are important to the
larger community. We have taken preliminary steps to address
these issues, but in no way would we consider these the
correct or permanent solutions. It is for this reason, I am
address the ROS user’s group to solicit feedback and
discussion about these two issues:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">1.<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman"">
</span></span><!--[endif]-->Stack/Meta-Package/Package
Status – Many people have commented that it is hard to know
the true status of a package (whether the code is complete or
in development). The existence of a wiki is not an indicator,
as several packages in ROS (including some of our own) are
released early (i.e. agile development). For this reason we
have started identifying the status of a package on our wiki
pages (see:
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://ros.org/wiki/Industrial/Software_Status">http://ros.org/wiki/Industrial/Software_Status</a>
). Here is an example of a stack/meta-package that has been
marked with its current status:
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://ros.org/wiki/industrial_core">http://ros.org/wiki/industrial_core</a>
. This is only a start to what I think needs to be done, but
it solves and urgent need for us and all the developers that
are using our software. I would like to see this status or
something similar used by the larger community (what to you
guys think).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">2.<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman"">
</span></span><!--[endif]-->Code quality/testing/metrics –
Several users have asked for this type of information about
our packages. This is one of the (not the only) reasons we
set up a Jenkins server specifically for ROS-Industrial (see
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://rosindustrial.org/news/2013/8/13/jenkins-system-for-ros-industrial-repositories">http://rosindustrial.org/news/2013/8/13/jenkins-system-for-ros-industrial-repositories</a>
). The ROS community already utilizes Jenkins servers for
continuous integration and debain builds, but code metrics are
missing (even some as simple as how many compiler warnings are
generated). We would like to see this kind of data rolled
into official ROS Jenkins servers. Is this a need for those
in the large community?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks for you time,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Shaun Edwards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Senior Research
Engineer<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Manufacturing
System Department<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://robotics.swri.org"><span
style="color:blue">http://robotics.swri.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://rosindustrial.swri.org/"><span
style="color:blue">http://rosindustrial.swri.org/</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://ros.swri.org/"><span
style="color:blue">http://ros.swri.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://groups.google.com/group/swri-ros-pkg-dev/boxsubscribe"><span
style="color:blue">Join the ROS-Industrial Developers
List</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Southwest
Research Institute<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">210-522-3277<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
ros-users mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ros-users@code.ros.org">ros-users@code.ros.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.ros.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-users">http://lists.ros.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-users</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>